By Bert van de Kamp

Furthermore, he's been nominated for the Nobel Peace Price for his work and dedication to relief Third World's depts. Time for a new tete-a-tete. 

We sit down in a hotel lobby, next to a window. He doesn't have much time because his opening speech hasn't been finished yet and he hasn't even eaten yet. So, during our conversation we're served two little baguettes with kroket [Dutch snack], with which the Irish super star doesn't know how to deal. He removes the krokets from their baguettes, and slowly eats the krokets by tearing of little pieces off from it. His hands become filthy and on a given moment he walks off for a minute to get rid of a piece of meat that got stuck between his teeth. A super star is only human too.

He talks in a friendly, cautionate way, like the way we're used to from him. At one point, I see him giving the peace sign to a girl that's watching at us through the window. A bit later another time to another girl as well. He starts telling me he's become dad again last year

Bono: After two daughters, a son this time, Elijah. We call him Eli. After the two girls I wasn't so sure wether I'd even wanted a son. Don't ask me why.. What if he turns out to become such a basterd like his old man? I wouldn't know how to deal with that. My own dad called me up, just after my son's birth and said: 'Ye got a name for him already? I know a good one; Revenge!' Through the kids, my vision on the world has changed.

Bert: In what respect? Have you gained a bigger notion of responsibility?

Bono: "No, my wife Alison has become even less responsible. As a mother she's remained very responsible, but in her own life she has more fun now. You see that more often, when a woman has got children. Me, I've become more militant. From a political point of view as well. I can get very angry about the things how they are sometimes and get more and more convinced things have to change to obtain a better future for our children. Have you read 'Einstein's Monster' by Martin Ames? It's a collection of short stories on the world after Tsjernobyl. It's well worth the read.

Bert: "You seem to succeed in having some sort of family life, alongside your carreer."

Bono: "Yeah, I'm lucky."

Bert: "But you change busy years by quiet ones.

Bono: "It's a three-year cicle. Every third year, I spend with my family. Last time, we took our children with us on the road. Not to all the concerts, but when they were in the neighborhood. We made sure they got education and that went very well, to be honest.

Bert: "The new U2 album, it's taking an eternity, isn't it?

Bono: "We've been busy writing it for a year and now we're in a studio for a couple of months, recording it.

Bert: "It feels like you're recording it for years already.

Bono: "Well, we rehearse in a studio and let a tape run along to the sessions. That's the way we create songs. The actual recording takes place at a later point. After one and a half year we had about 35 more or less completed songs on demo tape. Ye oughta take ten or twelve from those and finish the album. That's the most difficult thing for us, 'cause we get easily bored. We keep coming up with new things, which is more fun. The last couple of months though, we try to finish the album because we plan to release it in the autumn.

Bert: "Does it have a title already?

Bono: "We haven't figuered that out yet. That's it's taken so long is also because of me. I spend a whole lot of time with the movie and its soundtrack. Besides that, I've been rather busy with Jubilee 2000, trying to get red of the Third World depts.

Bert: "Last year, during a BBC documentary on Salman Rushdie, I heard a snippet of 'Ground Beneath Her Feet', which I liked a lot. I liked it much better actually, than the version that's on the MDH Soundtrack. Don't you adjust songs for too long?

Bono: Why?

Bert: "That organ makes the song less intence for me".

Bono: "That organ section is kinda like a fugue. I find this version warmer.

Bert: "I'd go for the other version then. Will it ever be released? As a b-side or so?

Bono: "It's been on the internet, but if you like, I can send it to you. Salman's lyrics are kind of an obituary and the melody's got some Eastern juice to it. There's a kind of linkage between Indian and Irish music, as you know.

Bert: "Were the U2-songs on the MDH Soundtrack originally meant for your own album?

Bono: "Only Stateless, indeed. You know what I find funny? That soundtrack has been recorded in ten days and has gotten better critics than any U2 album.

Bert: "Perhaps the MDH-band is better? [laughs]

Bono: "Hey, easy on!

Bert: "With Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois, Bill Frisell, Brian Blade....

Bono: "Watch your words, mistah.. They're very diverse. They can do everything,  but when we were looking for something with a hard core, it turned out they coundn't do it. Brian Blade is a drummer you can get to cry [not sure what Bono means here]. We recorded the music just like the way Miles Davis did for L'Ascenseur Pour L'Echafaud, so with the images on a big screen in front of us. It went very well that way, like it happens with U2 sometimes also. I wished I could let you hear some of our new material. There's fire in it. The band is tighter than ever.. the four of us, playing in a room.

Bert: "I haven't seen the movie yet, but from reviews I heard it's a modern parable.

Bono: "It's not a movie for large audiences. You take the viewer with you to downtown Los Angeles, which is kinda like a Haiti, at least at night when the shops and banks are closed and everybody has gone home. A sort of ghost town, taken over by bums and gang members. When we were working on Rattle And Hum, we used to stay in that hotel. For me it was very special to be able to work with a genius director, like Wim Wenders is. I watched him from the side.. to see how he was working. Very interesting and I learned a lot.

Bert: "One of the themes of the movie is unconditional love.

Bono: "Exactly. The movie kicks off with a man, jumping from a building. The first line in the movie goes; 'After I jumped, it occured to me that life is perfect, life is the best'. I talked to people who initially didn't like the movie, but they noticed they couldn't disattach themselves from the movie's characters. They kept on running through their minds, so they went back to the cinema to see it a second time. The movie's like a melody that keeps on going in your head. Wim is a jazz musician. He takes a melody, changes some chords, improvises a little, and makes it as abstract so you can hardly make out the melody, but instead it doesn't let you get rid of it.

Bert: "In Salman Rushdie's novel The Ground Beneath Her Feet, there's written quite a lot of/on pop history. I know you took him in your house for a while. To what extend have you influenced him in writing the book?

Bono: "I met Salman at a U2 show. He was accompanied by am English composer who got an extreme hautain attitude. He was grinning all the time and spoke with such an Oxbridge accent. He said 'I just said to Salman that I was a member in  rock band once.. ha! ha! ha! I know, I was crazy!' to which I replied: 'Why did you quit? You can use an honourable job'. That got to him. Later on I asked Salman why the English establishment is so embarrased for pop, while there's been so many great pop band, and still are. What are they ashamed for? English pop stars like to be taken seriously so much. They want to be seen in company of the Queen or the prime-minister. As if they can't believe that being a pop artist is a serious job. Salman said: 'You're right.. pop music has always been important to me.' I don't think I've gotten him into writing the book, but I noticed he became more and more interested in the lives of musicians/artists.

Honour is a fascinating phenomenon. Take a look at Anton, for instance. Taking photo's of 'the rich and famous' is actually a huge task. Art has to do with finding the beauty. How do you find beauty in the so called 'beautiful people'? They're too transparent. I don't know how Anton managed to do just that. Maybe it's because they're mainly musicians, he photogrpahs.

Bert: "Now he's become a celebraty himself, it seems his own fascination has decreased.

Bono: "Yeah, it's a terrible theme.. honour and being famous. We used that as a platform for ZooTV. He manged to find his way through all that, but most people can not. My opinion on Anton is that he didn't take pictures of us, but of our songs. He surrounded us in the beauty of the music.

Bert: "Am I talking to the future Nobel Peace Price winner?

Bono: "Oh Good Lord! I get way too much credits for the work that I do for Jubilee 2000. The last few years have been unbelievable. We managed to get inside and make it tough on the people we wanted to talk to. That's another aspect of being famous. We're the lucky ones.. the blessed ones, because we can do what we want to. We get paid too much for what we do. The real heroes are the nurses, firemen and mothers of this world.

Bert: "Nevertheless, people in Africa will be thankful.

Bono: "Well, the only thing to which I contributed, is America. From the moment on Bill Clinton held that speech in front of the World Bank and said it's immoral to ask a human being to pay back long running depts instead of feeding his starving children, so much has changed. That was an important moment... that he really said it. It gave other politicians the notion they should do something also. What's going in Ethiopia right on is terrible. I see pictures on television.. pictures that exactly the same as in the 80s, and earlier on in the 70s. Patti Smith wrote about it, even then.. you remember it? 'Radio Ethiopia'. Ali and I went there and I still have a feeling of connection to those people. Three famines in three decades.. 18 million people on the edge of starvation. And the war only worsens the situation. That's the big problem. Jubilee can't do a thing before it has the insurance the money goes to the right people.

Bert: "You also visited the Pope. Did you mention the word 'condoms'?

Bono: "In Ireland, there's a lot of people who agree with him on this point, but there's also a lot of people who don't. I didn't think it was the right moment to talk about it, because I wanted to discuss his support in our goals to get rid of the depts. When you read what he wrote the other day.. it's amazing. For those kind of expressions, priests in Nicaragua were expelled. He said: 'Coming along with private possession comes a personal mortgage and with intellectual possession comes intellectual mortage'. I mean, that's the Pope! When holding on to principles jeopardises so many lives, you oughta think twice, I find. It's the same with female circumsicion in Middle Eastern countries. You can't have any of that! It's simply unacceptable. I don't think the catholic hierarchy has the same influence the way it used the have in the past. Most Christians now have their own relation with God, where the church has no influence. By the way, the Pope wears way cool red dancing shoes! Quincy Jones said to me: 'He's wears pimp shoes!'

Bert: "And then you gave him matching sunglasses?

Bono: "Yeah, and he gave me this [Bono shows the rosary which he wears around his neck] The cross has been made according to Michelangelo's design. It's refered to as the 'oblique cross' [?]

Bert: "Not bad for a kid from a mixed marriage"

Bono: "It's funny, eh? In churches, I still feel as comfortable as uncomfortable like I've always felt. Wether it's the revival-places in the deep South of the US or the Saint Peter. My favourite church is located in the Tederloin district in San Francisco. They've got an awesome choir there, comprised of street junks, skin heads and bums. During the service, you can buy an HIV-test! You've got to check it out one time. Slides are being projected, containing words like LOVE and POWER. I like those kind of churches. The reverend, Cecil Williams, wears an blue Afghan coat and is really impressive. I'm a wandering spirit.. I go where I can find some spirit. If it isn't there, I'm leaving.

Bert: "You know a band called 16 Horsepower?

Bono: "No"

Bert: "They're a powerful, biblically bound band from Denver, Colorado. Their music is one big commercial for true relegion.

Bono: "I'll check it out.. thanks for the tip. These days, I only buy records that are advised to me by friends. The best music is still being made by people who're on the run for, or looking for the Holy Spirit. Take a look at Blues music, to Hip Hop and R&B.. or to Dylan, Leonard Cohen or even to the young Jeff Buckly.

Bert: "So, you're not quite up to date with modern music anymore?

Bono: "Most new music I hear on house parties. I listen to dance musiuc to dance. In Dublin I've got The Kitchen for club music. Because of my impatience, I can't listen to everything. I still follow the music press, to stay up to date at least a little.

Bert: "Critics have written that U2 plunder the underground scene for ideas, which you can popularise in your own music. What's your answer to this?

Bono: "It's true! [laughs] And why not? Our music has been plundered through the years too. What does Bod Dylan say again in 'Browsville Girl'? 'If there's an original thought out there, I could use it right now'. It doesn't matter what you do, you'll always be influenced. The whole subject is kinda stupid. Laying down a groove is easy, creating a mood is too..  but to come up with a melody and write lyrics.. that's another story. That's the direction we wanna go. That's the future. The new album will surprise a lot of people. It's gonna be a record with balls. There's a lot of life-force or energy on it. On itself, I liked the songs on Pop, but they weren't finished! [laughs] We didn't have time to finish it, because the tour was already planned. That mistake we didn't make this time around.

Bert: "So, there's gonna be a new tour?

Bono: "Yes, but it's gonna be indoors. That's seems very exciting.

Bert: "Indoors, music sounds much better than outdoors.

Bono: "Our music sounds great outdoors as well

Bert: "Yeah, thanks to tons on equipment

Bono: "One of the requirements of the new songs I put forward was that we could play them live. Otherwise I'd discard them immediatly.

Bert: "Why not a club tour?

Bono: "Arena's like the Ahoy are clubs for us! [laughs] I like to play for a large audience, to surf on the waves of the crowd. When you're gonna play clubs, you're in principle playing in front of journalists and other folks from the music industry. That's totally different.

Bert: "It's actually a big achievement, that the four of you stayed together for so long now.

Bono: "And we've never worked together as good as we do now. We watched each other's lives up close.. the brighter and darker periods. We know each other's moods. Adam turned 40 the other day and said: 'I never thought I'd reach 40!' But he's still around and playing the bass better than he ever did. It's magic.. 'Smell my finger' as George Clinton put it. Daniel Lanois calls him the jazz man of the band. We try to be as good as the best bands that have been around. That's our goal and it has nothing to do with scoring hit singles. Have you heard Lou Reed's new album? Those lyrics are about the best he's ever written. It's his 'Blood on the tracks'

Bert: "You turn 40 yourself in May

Bono: "Yeah, and still not cool! I hope to be cool when I'm 60.. if all goes well.